[CREATESPACE] Margin Error upon Submission of Interior

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alexnz
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[CREATESPACE] Margin Error upon Submission of Interior

Post by alexnz » Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:21 am

Hi all,
I just received a message from the CreateSpace team that my interior file does not have adequate margins for a bleed. They stated they need at least 0.375 top, bottom and outside. However when creating the book I made sure that I followed the recommendations and I set the margins as 0.5 just to be sure. Of course, there are some images that extend beyond the 0.5 margin such as page numbers, but that is simply because I want them to be on the very edge of the trim. I thought that the bleed area is .125 away from the edge of the page. Any ideas as to why the interior is being rejected for margins?

https://imgur.com/a/KkGjQCc

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Seisa
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Re: [CREATESPACE] Margin Error upon Submission of Interior

Post by Seisa » Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:52 am

If any image bleeds, the entire interior block must be 0.125" wider than your selected trim size and 0.25" taller than your selected trim. No text or other "live elements" can be any closer than 0.375" to the bleed line (0.25" to the trim line on the top, outside, and bottom - the inside minimum margin depends on your page count).

It sounds like maybe your page numbers are in the "out of live" zone (this 0.375" from the bleed edge), but without seeing the final PDF or what CS is flagging, I can't really tell.
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Re: [CREATESPACE] Margin Error upon Submission of Interior

Post by walton » Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:14 am

Just to add a titch to Sarah's answer: CS tends to write in an aberrant form of Lower Babylonian cuneiform. That 0.375" is one of their more "intelligible" formulations. Aside from its derivation from the combination of out-of-live margin (0.25") and the bleed margin (0.125"). the live element in the out-of-live margin, CS reviewers often seem to be on the schnapps. Sara is right, if you can insert an image of what might be the offending page/image, we might be able to help better.

Here is an example of a cover CS rejected precisely for that reason: live elements in the out-of-live margins:

Image

The live elements are the black and red colors that bleed. The reviewer was wrong. I "politely" contested this, and a week later, without so much as an "oops, we goofed," the project was approved.

They don't make is easy!
Walton

Bleeds , free, 91 page guide to bleeds, margins, covers, and annotated CreateSpace guidelines. Prepress Glossary free, 79 page, fully illustrated prepress glossary with annotations forCreateSpace users. Typography free, 112 page illustrated guide to designing books, typography, with glossary and type specimen pages. Free list of free PDF downloads.

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alexnz
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Re: [CREATESPACE] Margin Error upon Submission of Interior

Post by alexnz » Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:21 pm

Thanks for taking a look at the issue. I've uploaded some more pictures of the pdf and the word document.

https://imgur.com/a/voLX9Bb

The first picture is the version that I edited after being rejected (It has the measurements of the width and height in red). The second image is the word document with the margin measurements and the size measurements. The final image is what I though was three problems that led to my interior being rejected; the page number, the small image in the top left corner, and the text on the left hand pages that might have been in the 'out of zone' area. At the moment, all of those last three elements are 0.375 away from the edge.
Was the original copy okay? Is my second version okay? I resubmitted it to CreateSpace so i'm waiting to hear back from them but i'd love anyone else's opinion on it.

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Re: [CREATESPACE] Margin Error upon Submission of Interior

Post by walton » Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:53 am

How many pages in the book?

It looks like the page numbers might be the problem:

Image

Red is the bleed margin. Blue is the out-of-live margin.

You don't say what your page count is. If it is 24-150, yellow, then the boxes around the numbers might be the problem. If it is 151-300, then the additional green shows that both the page numbers and the question numbers are the problem.

You show us single digit page numbers, even if they are correct, double or triple digit page numbers might become a problem.

Should the boxes be a blocking issue? I don't think so, but the reviewer might. Perhaps someone else here might have a thought. However, I am always cautious about placing text even close to any margins. We've seen book blocked because the text block while on the edge of a margin, letters like an italic f in some fonts can extend outside the actual text block margin, and therefore into the minimum CS margin, whichever one it is.

The images and the graphics do not look as if they are problem. But I posted the cover to show that reviewers can have odd ideas, and sometimes they are simply wrong.
Walton

Bleeds , free, 91 page guide to bleeds, margins, covers, and annotated CreateSpace guidelines. Prepress Glossary free, 79 page, fully illustrated prepress glossary with annotations forCreateSpace users. Typography free, 112 page illustrated guide to designing books, typography, with glossary and type specimen pages. Free list of free PDF downloads.

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alexnz
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Re: [CREATESPACE] Margin Error upon Submission of Interior

Post by alexnz » Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:35 pm

Hi Walton,

There are only 26 pages in this small draft copy run. I'm getting CS to send me two proof copies in the mail so i can check out what the bleed is really like. CS approved my second interior submission with the adjustments to the page numbers, question numbers, and the small image in the top left corner. Basically, my full book version will be 246 pages long, so I hope with the adjustments I made that it will be accepted despite the increase in pages.
Also, there's a problem with the image you posted. You showed the page numbers as being in the center. According to CS all even pages are on the Left hand side, and odd numbered pages on the right. That's why I was kind of confused because as you can see I gave PLENTY of room in the middle. I just wanted my page numbers flush with the out of live zone but I guess that's wishful thinking. I'll see what happens when my proof arrives (20th May haha).

Thanks for your picture though, the colour helps me get a better idea of everything, just like in your CS bleeds and margins guide.

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Re: [CREATESPACE] Margin Error upon Submission of Interior

Post by walton » Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:26 pm

I used the image you posted. Had I considered the folios, I wouldn't have reconstructed the spread. Honestly, I was not looking at the folios to see if they were correct, only the margins.

Sorry, I couldn't help.
Walton

Bleeds , free, 91 page guide to bleeds, margins, covers, and annotated CreateSpace guidelines. Prepress Glossary free, 79 page, fully illustrated prepress glossary with annotations forCreateSpace users. Typography free, 112 page illustrated guide to designing books, typography, with glossary and type specimen pages. Free list of free PDF downloads.

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alexnz
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Re: [CREATESPACE] Margin Error upon Submission of Interior

Post by alexnz » Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:52 am

Ah youre right I did upload them that way. Anyway, like I said createspace approved the second copy which is based on the alterations you suggested so you did help. Thanks! I do have one questiona bout quality though, and I'm kind of perplexed as to how to fix it.
Screenshot001.png
Screenshot001.png (105.01 KiB) Viewed 1716 times
As you can see from the screen shot, the quality near the boxes is degraded. In MS word it looks fine, but when I convert it the quality is decreased. Any idea how to fix this? I wonder if anyone encountered this problem before.

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Re: [CREATESPACE] Margin Error upon Submission of Interior

Post by walton » Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:48 am

I would guess that if you used Word's various tools, the box and the page number are vector, and therefore very sharp. Raster images are generally much softer.

If you are judging the images in Word on your monitor, remember that your monitor is designed to give you the best visual experience possible:

Image

On the left is a screen capture, from the Hermitage museum of a Chardin painting. It was roughly 3 x 3 on my monitor. On the right is that image printed out.

The only way to know if your images print okay is to see a printed proof. Also remember that CS will screen everything that is raster and usually not vector. Usually, because when vector art (text for example) is in close proximity to raster art, this can create what are called complexity regions. The PDF may resolve this by rasterizing some/all of that vector element.

CS not only screens art:

Image

CS uses a 106 lpi screen for B&W and a 170 lpi screen for color. Within each halftone dot are as many as 14 dots of ink (addressable dots of ink, the correct use of dpi as opposed to ppi). So images can be sharper than you might guess simple from the line frequency of the screen.
Walton

Bleeds , free, 91 page guide to bleeds, margins, covers, and annotated CreateSpace guidelines. Prepress Glossary free, 79 page, fully illustrated prepress glossary with annotations forCreateSpace users. Typography free, 112 page illustrated guide to designing books, typography, with glossary and type specimen pages. Free list of free PDF downloads.

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Re: [CREATESPACE] Margin Error upon Submission of Interior

Post by Phoenix » Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:24 pm

This is like following a conversation in an alien language. :) Glad you techno-geeks know what you are talking about. I just add pictures to my books and hope like crazy they turn out. So far so good, although experts would disagree. I guess I am learning by following this thread, but buggered if I know what it is I am learning. :lol:

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